Fire of a Night Fury?

[HellstormOP]

Hi there,
since I watched the movie I'm wondering what the Night Fury fire is made of. The official website says something about "a semi-solid mass, alight with an acetylene-oxygen flame" but:

1. Why does this flame has a such intense indigo colour? Acetylene burns with a yellow, sooty flame if it isn't mixed with enough PURE oxygen (air contains about 20 percent oxygen, and the fireball keeps its colour even during flight)

2. Why does the flame explode on impact and emit a ring of blue mist? Acetylene wouldn't emit blue light in case of an explosion, not even with pure oxygen. The only way I can imagine why that happens, is that the semi-solid mass only CONTAINS acetylene and maybe also a special thickener, which turns it into a non-Newtonic fluid, which means that its semi-solid during flight, but becomes a liquid like water upon striking the target, and the burning fluid gets splashed away in a ring. But where does the destructive shockwave come from then? Acetylene which is dissolved in a fluid (e.g. acetone) doesn't explode/decompose into hydrogen and carbon fast enough to create a shockwave.

Anyone got ideas how the Night Fury fire might work?

[Sunny]

O.O UUUUUMMMMM.....

well i dont think even the people who designed night furies know that. i think they just made the fireball thing look cool and then chose an interesting way to explain. I honestly have no idea as to what would cause a reaction like it so i cant help you here... who knows, maybe night furys fire use a chemical or whatever that they make in their bodies... so there is no way we can answer...

[HellstormOP]

Hmm... Sent an E-Mail to Dreamworks Animation now, waiting for a response. Anyone else got ideas about it or at least where I can ask it else?

[Sunny]

Wow!! You emailed dreamworks?!?! What's there email??? Tell me PLEASE!!!! As for other ideas, I have none. Wait!! Maybe you could post in count to thirty before a mod posts, post the number then below it post this question. Someone there might answer.

[HellstormOP]

The E-Mail is: [e-mail]
Could you pls explain me again what you mean with "post in count"?

[Sunny]

THX!!!
i ment to post this same question in: "Count to thirty before a mod posts" (A topic in the fun and games section) even though its off topic, post the number that it is up to aswell as your question. I hope that made sense, its hard to explain. um... heres the link: howtotrainyourdragon.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fungames&action=display&thread=138&page=76

[HellstormOP]

So still nobody got an idea how it might work? Dreamworks didn't answer me.

[nightfurymaster]

There must be some component not mentioned. Some kind of ethanol mixture combined with the acetylene is my guess, for what gives it the explosive part. Perhaps they're somehow divided until the mass hits its target, and the force of the impact combines them, causing the explosion. I really don't know, I'm not too into chemistry and what not. How long ago did you shoot the email to them?

[HellstormOP]

I sent the email at 22 Feb....
BTW: Ethanol would give a such indigo flame, but it would not be really bright. I also dont think that there is a way to keep TWO components in ONE fireball from reacting during flight. What I could imagine is a semi-solid solvent mass, maybe consisting from acetone as a a solvent and ethanol for the indigo flame and maybe als as a destabilizer for the acetylene (acetone stabilizes acetylene and prevents it from explosion, so maybe ethanol doesn't?). Also it would be necessary to increase the explosive potential of the mixture and thicken it to get a semi-solid mass, so I think it could contain cellulose nitrate both as a thickener and an explosive. Maybe the acetylene gets directly forced into the solvent mass before the fireball is shot and then the acetylene slowly boils out of the fireball during the flight and completely blows it on impact, splashing away the solvent?

[nightfurymaster]

Hmm, now I just remembered something. Do you recall the scene when Toothless is about to flame Stoick after he saves Hiccup from the Nightmare in the ring? He starts to gather a lot of olive-green gas in the base of his mouth as he seems to be slightly inhaling. Not sure if this can contribute to the explanation or support it?

[mittles]

For the record, a friend of mine sent an email to dreamworks with a query about a film and didn't hear back for about two months. Not that that should be the case here, but that's my experience with the matter.

It's an interesting question and far beyond my incredibly unscientific mind. My first thought however, as maddening at is it might be, is that maybe there is no explanation other than the one they gave?! And that it's the way it is purely for a story telling and visual purpose with a bit of science thrown in?

HOWEVER, your own explanations are pretty interesting and have got me thinking about it a lot more and pestering my chemistry blessed friends. I hope Dreamworks reply soon with an answer.

[HellstormOP]

I think he inhales air to produce a big acetylene-oxygen flame, not a blast, because a blast would also hurt him by the power of the explosion, and every flammable gas of the dragons is green in the movie (just look at the gas of the Hideous Zippleback). Toothless also flamed the ground with the acetylene flame one time (at the begin of the movie) to warm it up, so I think Night Furies have two storage organs: one for the acetylene and one for the semi-solid carrier/solvent/explosive mass, so they can choose either to breathe a jet of burning acetylene/air mix for close ranges (to not hurt themselves by an explosion), or to shoot a blast of the semi-solid mass mixed with acetylene for creating an explosion on impact. Do you also remember the scene when Toothless attacks the Viking towers and compare it with the scene where he shoots an angry blast at the ground because he can't fly? The faster Toothless flies, the larger gets the ring of indigo-colored mist. That means that the ring consists of burning liquid or gas, and maybe also that Night Furies vary the ratio of acetylene to the solvent mass depending on the target. (The angry blast at the ground doesn't set anything on fire and also doesn't create a big explosion, while the strike at the catapult completely blows it up and also causes a massive fireball.)

[Sunny]

I think the answer your looking for is that he is a dragon and he has special chemicals that we dont know about. though, i was thinking just now and realised the gronckle ate rocks or something and then shot them out whilst they were on fire or somthing. because you cant see toothless eating rocks or whatever, maybe nightfurys have some kind of solid ball of somthing that they simply set on fire and then the chemicals in the SOLID thing create the colour of the fire, not the fire being made of somthing that gives its colour. you might have already said this but i cant really understand you guys cos im only in year 8.

[HellstormOP]

The Gronckle ate rocks to melt them and shoot them out as yellow-glowing lava, they aren't on fire. I also think that the colour comes from the semi-solid mass, but

1. Why is that color so bright? Normally blue flames from organic chemicals aren't that bright.
2. Where comes the oxygen from to make the flame that blue without leading to an explosion on ignition (anything oxidizing mixed in the right ratio with the fuel would make it explode right when it is ignited)?

[HellstormOP]

Another important question: Maybe Night Furies only set the semi-solid mass alight with a mixture of acetylene and oxygen to heat it up and ensure its reliable burning during flight? And the actual fired mass consists of some sort of an explosive mixed with a thickener or a solvent or a flammable compound? That would explain why Toothless was able to heat the ground below him with an acetylene-oxygen flame, but it still wouldn't explain the small blasts, which you can see when Toothless lets out an angry blast at the ground because he is unable to fly and in the "dragon training lessons" on YouTube. Also the strange bright plasma-like indigo color of the fireball would still remain unexplained.