EP115 - Twinsanity Discussion

[ravenorus]

I thought I'd get the ball rolling on this, seeing as no one else has.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was predisposed to dislike this episode, seeing as Ruffnut and Tuffnut are easily my least favorite characters. A few observations:

1) The hand signals are a neat addition. I hope they're here to stay

2) I had previously assumed that Zipplebacks, despite having two heads, was just a single being i.e. just a single personality. That is clearly not the case.

3) I'd love to learn more about the Berserkers. I think 50,000 was an exaggeration, but they are obviously a very powerful tribe. Are they like feudal lords, using their strength to keep lesser tribes in line?

4) Who is Dagur's "excellent authority"? My money is on Alvin. I also considered Mildew and Johan the Trader, but the former doesn't have the opportunity and the latter wouldn't have given the impression of a dragon "army".

5) That part about the rotten cod head was unnecessary and gross. Really, Dreamworks?

The overarching theme was about working in tandem. When Ruff and Tuff are not on the same page, their dragon suffers. And when the relationship breaks down, barf and belch (really, Dreamworks?) become uncontrollable and out of sorts.

Ruff and Tuff remain my least favorite characters, but at least they have some depth now.

Let's hear everyone's thoughts!

-R

[timberjack]

Feb 15, 2013 1:36:04 GMT -5 ravenorus said:

I thought I'd get the ball rolling on this, seeing as no one else has.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was predisposed to dislike this episode, seeing as Ruffnut and Tuffnut are easily my least favorite characters. A few observations:

1) The hand signals are a neat addition. I hope they're here to stay

2) I had previously assumed that Zipplebacks, despite having two heads, was just a single being i.e. just a single personality. That is clearly not the case.

3) I'd love to learn more about the Berserkers. I think 50,000 was an exaggeration, but they are obviously a very powerful tribe. Are they like feudal lords, using their strength to keep lesser tribes in line?

4) Who is Dagur's "excellent authority"? My money is on Alvin. I also considered Mildew and Johan the Trader, but the former doesn't have the opportunity and the latter wouldn't have given the impression of a dragon "army".

5) That part about the rotten cod head was unnecessary and gross. Really, Dreamworks?

The overarching theme was about working in tandem. When Ruff and Tuff are not on the same page, their dragon suffers. And when the relationship breaks down, barf and belch (really, Dreamworks?) become uncontrollable and out of sorts.

Ruff and Tuff remain my least favorite characters, but at least they have some depth now.

Let's hear everyone's thoughts!

-R

I though that the hand signals thing was kinda dumb. I mean they are already really pushing this suspension of disbelief thing, and it just seems like something to patch loopholes and stuff.

[varthikes]

Regarding the Zipplebacks... Makes since to me. Two heads, two brains, two personalities.

The bit about the rotten cod head didn't bother me. About on the level of Toothless insisting Hiccup partake of the fish in the movie.

I actually like the twins. I much prefer them to Snotlout.

The hand signals were good, though they seemed to have gotten on fine without them before.

[ravenorus]

Feb 17, 2013 3:52:31 GMT -5 varthikes said:

The bit about the rotten cod head didn't bother me. About on the level of Toothless insisting Hiccup partake of the fish in the movie.

Yeah, you're right. I was probably just in a bad mood when I was watching the episode.

-R

[Berk]

Hm... let's see.

The rotten cod head fits. First of all, it fits perfectly with Dagur (sp?) and what he would do. Secondly, both that and Barf and Belch fit perfectly with, well... Berk. It's kind of the first thing Hiccup ever tells us. The people of Berk are crude. They're not refined and cultural people. They can be a bit disgusting. It's how they are. I mean... Fishlegs? Snotlout? It fits amazingly.

I did like this episode. It was good. It expanded more on the Twins and their individuality. I wonder about stuff like that. Like "well, when they're both grown up and possibly live away with even their own viking families.... how's sharing a dragon going to work?" And I think this worked well.

The Hand Signals I do hope stay. Episode-wise, they were essential, because the riders had to be able to direct their dragons in front of the Beserkers without them knowing, and that couldn't work with them doing their usual shouting. And like Fishlegs pointed out, it's useful for long distance commands.

I do think 50,000 was an exaggeration... someone like Dagur would do that. I'm curious now as to what happened to his father... did Dagur kill him? Exile him? Or just made him step down.

I personally think Mildew is the leak, since he's really the only one Dagur would have a reason not to specifically mention. We've seen that he can get messages off the island, like how he was able to get a message to Trader Johan about wanting those flowers.

Anyways... I liked this. It had good details, like Dagur asking about Hiccup's leg, and the attack scene. It's also nice to see more of Berk's neighbors... albeit a really annoying one.

[buckmana]

I'm assuming that Dagur did kill his father.

Everytime he mentions Oswald the Aggreeable, he uses past tense.
And when he's ranting/mimicking his father telling him not to do things, he says in a terrified voice "Ahhhh! Dagar! Put that axe down!".

Also, the use of the word "retired" has sinister connations, given the above examples.


Does Snotlout ever resist a chance to make romantic advances on Astrid?
That's playing with fire, pardon the pun!
She's made it quite clear that she finds him personally repugnant and also that she wants Hiccup.
So why does he keep trying, considering that she's never ever going to go out with him?


I did like to see a more serious side of the Twins, how they're not just comic relief.
Also, I did start to wonder if Ruffnut is the smarter twin, because many times during this episode, she makes comments that indicate she thinks more clearly and delivers barbs that completely pass Tuffnut by (when she refers to her brother as "her" for example and he doesn't understand she's calling him a girl!).
And it was interesting to see their home for the first time.
I especially thought the part about them having a "well groomed stuffed yak" was funny.


I'm assuming Barf and Belch are roughly analogous to siamese twins, they have linked bodies, but seperate personalities and minds.

Which is obviously problematic, since unlike siamese twins, they have shared control and if not operating in sync, it causes them to try and operate their half of the body against the other half.
I'm assuming their nervous systems have to be linked somehow.

I wonder what their internal anatomy is like.
With two brains, they'd have to have two spinal cords and most likely, their spinal cords are intertwined, to enable them to function in unison.
I wonder if they can share thoughts because of this or is the spinal cord fusion only to allow voluntary/autonomic functions.
Also, I'm wondering if they have twice as many organs as a regular dragon, to support both heads.
This would mean they'd have two hearts, 4 lungs, two digestive tracts and so on.
Which would probably explain why their body is broader then other dragons, they need more space inside their bodies for the extra organs.


It was funny to see Hiccup get his secret revenge on Dagar.
He's pretending to protect Dagar from Toothless, but what he is really doing is taking this opportunity to beat him about the head and body with a shield!

[sannom]

May 26, 2013 15:42:03 GMT -5 buckmana said:

Also, the use of the word "retired" has sinister connations, given the above examples.

Especially when Dagur doesn't say that Oswald has retired, but has been retired. I'm amazed nobody in Berk picked on that one.

[TheCube]

That scene reminded me so much of that cutscene from Warcraft III where Arthas kills his father ("What is this? What are you doing, my son?" "Succeeding you, father."), and I'm sure Dagur meant it in the most sinister way possible.

Anyway, regarding the curious case of Zipplebacks, I did some research.

First thing i googled was "conjoined twins" to see real-life cases. Using terms applied to human conditions, Zipplebacks are closest to a conjoined twin of dicephalus dibrachius parapagus type (phew, that’s a long one), meaning they have two heads and two forelimbs, conjoined up to the shoulders ,having two sets of respiratory organs but sharing a single circulatory system. The most comprehensive case I’ve picked up is that of Abigail and Brittany Hensel. They seem to be almost able to read each other’s minds but they do not really share consciousness, as each head (sorry if that sounds pejorative) clearly has her own self-identity. They each control one side of the body, which means everything they do is conscious cooperation. If these things also apply to draconic anatomy, Zipplebacks probably do not share consciousness, but have grown to know each other very well over years of trial and error. Seems to apply pretty well to Barf and Belch.

Aaaand I just over-analyzed this, didn’t I...

[buckmana]

I looked up the girls in question and did find out how their internal organs are arranged.

They have 2 hearts, 4 lungs, two stomachs and two gall bladders.
However, their left/right lungs are fused together and both hearts are linked via the same circulatory system.

They have 3 kidneys though as opposed to the 4 they should have, I assume one of them never developed properly.

Everything else is pretty much like you'd expect in an ordinary person though.
That would make being a parent very confusing, since technically, both girls would be your mother!

I'm assuming however, as a Zippleback is a genetically viable lifeform, it wouldn't possess the linked or missing organs as those girls do.

However, like them, the stomachs would eventually merge into the same digestive system.