TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on Mar 30, 2013 22:20:47 GMT -5
I don't suppose there are a LOT of music readers here, but I'm doing this anyways. I'm opening up my entire Google Drive folder dedicated to transcriptions from HTTYD and RoB scores: sdrv.ms/14fgl8AThe contents currently include a complete Violin/Piano arrangement of the credits music from RoB, a complete violins part for "Astrid Goes For a Spin," a solo violin arrangement for "Romantic Flight" transposed and untransposed (you can tell I'm a violin player at this point, right?) and other works in progress, including a 4-staff reduction of "This is Berk" with instruments labeled. The folder contains both the PDF files and the source LilyPond files which you may download and add to freely... assuming you're willing to learn how to use LilyPond. I'll be adding stuff to the folder when I have spare time, though time is going to be a limiting factor for me during the next couple of months. If YOU have other sheet music stuff, post the links here. Doesn't matter if it's computer-engraved, hand written, whatever. If you scan your handwritten files, I might engrave them if I have time. I know there's a thread about GermanSeaBass's piano arrangement and stuff, but I wanted to go beyond the piano and see what we can come up with. Also, you might be able to request stuff here, too, I guess. Keep in mind that working with the sound files means that it will be harder to transcribe stuff from middle voices, such as violas, but don't hesitate.
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Post by toothlessdaydream7 on Mar 31, 2013 19:14:03 GMT -5
Even though this may be something I never understand... I do understand that this is pretty cool. Good work man.
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Post by shadowalker on Apr 17, 2013 23:08:00 GMT -5
I have taken the challenge of trying to recreate John Powell's arrangement. I had a lot but I hope you don't mind that I used quite a bit of what you had as well. There are quite a few differences between what you and I have. Some of the things I just can't seem to get right, like the trumpet, none of it sounds right. I'm sure I'm missing some instruments entirely but its almost midnight and I need to get to sleep. If you want I can get you a .wav wich sounds a million times better than what you hear on the site. musescore.com/user/74910/scores/93319#Tell me what you think?! I wan't to start on forbidden friendship soon...
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TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on Apr 18, 2013 16:10:27 GMT -5
First of all, awesome job, especially dealing with MuseScore. I have used it in the past but abandoned it since I wanted something that engraved music better, with better spacing and page turns, etc. LilyPond is open-source and even though you need to learn how to use it with quite a learning curve, it looks soo much better. Not to mention, of course, that it really excels at beaming and stuff, and can notate complex passages without looking like a huge mess.
It would be great if you could upload your .wav file to some sort of a cloud (I use google drive for these kinds of snippets) and link it. I can go from audio to staff notation very quickly but not the other way around.
My comments (which are basically just me being a dirtbag):
First of all, it's definitely advisable to keep your score in score order. That means that a staff group {Snare - Timpani - Voice} should be put ABOVE the first violins. It would also be awesome if you would bracket each instrument section, like winds, brass, percussion, and strings. Dover's reprint of Rite of Spring (which I have in front of me right now) is a pretty good example of score engraving, particularly with lots of meter and key changes.
I started with cut-time because I felt that the passage was very much in two as opposed to four, going a bit forward. Just my two cents.
mm. 13: The second note of Bassoon cue (which I wrongly wrote as English Horn, my bad) should be an A-flat, not a C. Although this is hard to hear, it is inferred from the shape of the same theme in other parts of the movie.
mm. 18: I don't think a key change is necessary. I chose three flats to indicate that it's much more of F dorian mode rather than minor, but there is no D in the theme so no one really knows whether it's just minor or dorian. So it doesn't matter if you start the gigue section with 3 or 4 flats, but I think it's better to stick to one key signature for the whole section.
mm. 26: Cellos I think are either an octave above or not playing at all. I don't hear them in unison with the basses ( there is no grit in the F that would be there if they were playing on the C string) but I can't quite catch if it is in unison with the violas. I think it's appropriate to put the B-flat minor key signature on this measure for the whole ensemble. It's gonna stay in B-flat for quite a while, so I don't see the point in holding it off till their entrance.
mm. 27: The second set of three notes is technically supposed to form a B major chord, or its enharmonic ( I wrote it down as G-flat, E-flat, and B natural). This is (kind of) like the Petrushka chord, with a clashing alternation of F minor and B major. I was struggling to figure this part out, but I figured it out when I was rehearsing some Korngold in the community orchestra and I heard this exact pair of chords next to each other. My ears tell me that while the violins do play every single note, there are woodwind entrances that happen quickly. Flute & Piccolo play for the first six notes of bb. 27, and clarinets take over for the next six notes. After that, all winds seem to be out until the oboe comes in with the trumpet.
mm. 28: The Timpani are playing an F. Would not really make sense for D flat to be there.
mm. 31-33: The flute needs to be an octave higher, and I also hear the piccolo playing an octave above the flute.
mm. 34: I don't think horns can do the sixteenth notes without dying... or sounding horrible. I only hear eighth notes for the horn part, with the winds doing the sixteenth notes. Same applies for most of the lower voices for the rest of this section.
mm. 39-42: I think you're getting overwhelmed by the PERCUSSION GOING LIKE THIS the whole way through. The melody is much simpler in terms of rhythm and contour, and it's being played by Tuba, Dbs. and probably bass trombone, and the horns are playing some BS duple eighth notes in the background. You can barely hear them if you REALLY pay attention, and they're probably muted too, which makes it even worse for hearing.
mm. 43: Piccolo should be still an octave higher than it is (yes, that is a crazy high run, but it's piccolo, it was born for this!) and should fit the B-flat minor pentatonic scale. I have the intended trumpet rhythm in my transcription. It's written with a strict rhythm, but I think it's supposed to be played with double-tonguing and a bit haphazardedly as it's played in the recording.
mm. 50: Violins are playing eighth notes in the background as indicated in my transcription. I should have written it better, but I wrote the trumpet entrance as a separate voice, so the two voices overlap each other at times. The trumpet part is again not as complicated as one might think.
Also something I thought of: I think grace notes are a better way to notate those short notes in "Dragons!" theme (as I did in my transcription). I thought of writing the dotted rhythm, but playing it on my violin, I feel that there needs to be a bigger gap between the A flat and the B flat, or it just feels off. Either grace notes, or I think eighth note, sixteenth rest, sixteenth note, and eighth note would be an alternative.
I wouldn't attempt a replica of the full score of a piece like this to begin with, though. The texture I think is just too thick with all the brass and percussion to transcribe all parts, especially from an audio source with limited dynamic range & fidelity.
Speaking of Forbidden Friendship.... I had some spare time today, so I started a pretty accurate sketch of the piece on Notion so I could also play it back. There is little brass and wind (actually the brass is almost nonexistent) which makes my job much, much easier, not to mention that there is a lot of repetition in individual parts. I am currently halfway through the piece past the key change, and now I just have to be aware of the instruments layering on top of each other in the second half. Here's a zip file of the .notion file (in case anyone bought the program?), an ok-quality .pdf and a .wav rendering of it: Updated link below with higher-quality PDF and corrected instrumentations!
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Post by shadowalker on Apr 20, 2013 19:25:08 GMT -5
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TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on Apr 20, 2013 19:35:58 GMT -5
Then there is so much that a high school junior violinist knows hehe. I do have many more resources, though, from a wind player friend who has a tin whistle, to my experience in a semi-professional orchestra (when your college town is basically 30% musicians, you are guaranteed to have one of the best community orchestras ever), to me having some sound libraries that can give me some decent sketches of music ideas. I am also very much into score reading and conducting, which makes me kind of a really really crazy music geek. I do hear a reed instrument at bar 2, but I think it's a bassoon if the sound placement tells me anything. A very soft F right below the middle C, I think. I don't have time right now but I'll add on to this post. Bookmark this thread and keep em coming!
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Post by shadowalker on Apr 22, 2013 0:16:41 GMT -5
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TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on Apr 22, 2013 21:40:53 GMT -5
Valiant effort; this one is a deceptive one to transcribe, since the melodic material seems so simple but there are so many doublings and percussion fillers. I am still arguing on whether I should have a celesta or a third vibe... sdrv.ms/ZRGl1KUpdated my FF with some corrections in instrumentation and notes. I converted my Notion file over to MusicXML and then converted it to LilyPond, and surprisingly it only took me 20 minutes to clear up the mistakes and get a nice-looking score. I'll have to work on the later half with pen and paper until I can get the notes right (I have absolute pitch which makes things easier, but not by much). If you really want to hear something worth listening to as you enter the notes, you might wanna invest a little money... MuseScore's default soundfont is in all honesty atrocious, and trust me, I've done do much digging in this field to the point where I once had a Linux partition running solely so I could use some sound samples (ended up being a failure). I know it's hard, but at 99 dollars, Notion 4 has given me so much insight on percussion sounds and their timbre options; it sounds pretty nice out-of-the-box, and it still doesn't break the bank like the insane East West Quantum Leap, or even worse, Vienna Symphonic Orchestra. Its other sections could sound better but I have GPO4 that I can use if I really want to get better sound, although it is a bit of a hassle. Notion also handles MusicXML which makes it quite compatible with MuseScore in exchanging files. Don't worry about the unpitched percussion too much; they're pretty much there as a filler. I achieved a similar filler effect that Powell intended using a sleigh bell, a cabasa, a suspended cymbal, and a guiro. Probably not the right combination, but in the end it works out. I'm still pretty tight on time... Maybe I'll get to some stuff later this week,
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Post by shadowalker on Apr 22, 2013 23:30:22 GMT -5
While i think a vibe is used, just not solely. The vibes metal bars resonate much longer than the Marimbas wooden bars and can get muddy. The dampen pedal is to much as well. Plus the vibes have a much louder attack than the marimba.
I'll pull out a marimba and a vibe during my jazz band class tomorrow and see which sounds more right.
And I don't use the stock sound font of musescore, I downloaded one called fluid something off their website. Its much better but not great.
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TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on Apr 23, 2013 15:17:37 GMT -5
The gripe I have with marimbas for this piece is that the instrument sounds very organic but imperfect. In the track the percussion sounds almost like some sort of glass bells in terms of attack and resonance, with its pure sound. I don't know how one could achieve that kind of timber with marimbas.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards
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TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on May 10, 2013 17:43:14 GMT -5
OH MY GOD. Yes, this is double-post but ignore that. OH MY GOD. I NOW HAVE THE FULL!!! CUE SHEETS (a.k.a the full orchestral score) IN PDF FORMAT. THIS IS INSANE. Source: forums.ffshrine.org/f92/how-train-your-dragon-recording-demo-sessions-127936/You'll have to register to the forum to view the link, so what I'm thinking is to upload this to a separate cloud for download, albeit only if requested (copyright is a scary thing). It's missing couple of tracks that have been basically pieced together from individual recording sessions (e.g. Forbidden Friendship) but it has all the cues recorded at the scoring session. I can tell you, although many of them are not full-digital pdf files (they're scans of the score), they have the notes as intended in the scoring session. Has every single instrument, written in film-cue style (with big time signatures), everything. Oh my god. *Goes INSAN-o*
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Post by shadowalker on May 11, 2013 20:02:16 GMT -5
I just died, then was reborn. Downloading now. That was my face when I saw this post. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
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TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on May 11, 2013 23:48:19 GMT -5
I'm making the score available for grabs on here too, but since copyright is one heck of a mess, I've added a "NOT FOR PERFORMANCE" watermark on all of them in the style of Schott's perusal scores: copy.com/2npWJL4zEMzF Seems like some of the cues aren't cut like the official soundtrack album (e.g. "This is Berk" and "Dragon Battle" are combined in one huge file) but that should be easy to figure out. Also, started cataloging the melodic material with a goal of building pretty much an ephemeris for themes and motifs, interpreting their roles. I'm in the process of moving it from Google Drive to a Word document for more advanced editing functions, so here's my WIP doc file in le SkyDrive: sdrv.ms/10AMsc2
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Post by shadowalker on May 12, 2013 22:58:41 GMT -5
Some cues are wrong entirely, Like I know a bassoon is playing that low F in the opening of This is berk, but its not notated.
In "See you Tomorrow", at measure 72, the flute entrance is not notated, nor are the rest of the entrances until measure 76 when the horns come in.
These must be early versions of the score. There could be several discrepancies, listen to the soundtrack and follow the score, see if anything major pops out at you.
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TheCube
Caught Dragon
vi - IVM7 - V - I ...
Posts: 182
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Post by TheCube on May 13, 2013 5:58:53 GMT -5
The missing cues are the overlays that must have been recorded separately, for example test drive is missing clarsach and some of the percussion entirely (ethnic drums I think), and new tail is missing the intro cue (played by hurdy gurdy?). Kind of sad, but I would also guess that conga drums and hurdy gurdies won't be able to project against all the other instruments.
By the way, glass marimba and slate marimba are one of the most specific instrument requirements I have seen.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards
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